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 Post subject: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:32 pm 
Takuma Sato
Driver ID: #103
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Joined: 11 Jan 2019
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Right. So as promised I've taken a stab at a race restart policy for us. I've borrowed ideas generously from other leagues but also considered that ASR is a bit more relaxed and values getting everyone a chance to participate. At the same time, restarts do have an impact (adding extra time to race night, eliminating standing starts and invalidating strategies) so there has to be some consequence and limit to this. That being said - here it is.

<flameproofsuit=on> Constructive feedback and suggestions welcome.

Race Restarts
Drop-outs are an inevitability in sim racing. Everyone should do everything they can do avoid them (make sure your OC is stable and be nice to your telco provider!). But drop-outs will still occur and if they do here is how we will handle them on a race night.

A drop-out is considered as anything that prevents a racer from being able to start the race. This includes everything from dropping out of the game due to network or game crash issues, through to user error events like hitting the “Return to Race Central” button after qualy or even getting yourself DQ’d in qualy.

If this case the racer that has dropped (the “dropper”) must ensure the Race Admin is made aware of the fact that they are unable to start the race before the race start cut-off point. Once advised the Race Admin will call an aborted race, will reform the lobby and restart the race.

If a dropper is noticed and cannot communicate (e.g. they experienced full PC crash or network loss) the racer than noticed the dropper should notify the Race Admin. If possible, the Race Admin will hold the session for 5 minutes to see if the dropper comes back online and can communicate, in which case a aborted race will be called and race restarted.

If communications is not re-established with the dropper within 5 minutes the race will not be aborted. If it is not possible for the Race Admin to hold the session (e.g. already in “Race Ready” countdown screen, or rolling start) and the dropper is not back online and able to communicate with Race Admin by race start cut-off point the race will not be aborted.

The race start cut-off points are
• For standing starts when all racers have hit “Ready” in the Race Start screen.
• For rolling starts when the Race Admin calls “Everyone in position, ready to go”

For the sake of clarify - once the race start cut-off point is reached the race can no longer be aborted under any circumstances.

All restarted races will use a rolling start with the grid order as applicable for that race (per Qualy for Race 1, reverse order of Race 1 results for Race 2). Any dropper(s) will however forfeit their original race start position and will be required to start from the back of the grid.

To ensure all racers are given every opportunity to participate, up to three aborts/restarts will be allowed per race night. To ensure proceedings do not run too late and other racers are impacted and have to leave due to delayed races no more than three aborts/restarts will be allowed per race night.

Note - only race sessions will be restarted. Qauly sessions will not be restarted and will run their full course regardless of whether racers drop out, get a penalty or even are DQ'd. (However, in the case of a drop-out/DQ a race restart will be called to ensure the dropped/DQ's racers can still participate in the race, albeit starting from the back of the grid)

The only exception to this policy will be in the case of mass disconnections (more than 1/3rd of racers impacted) in which case the Race Admin may take additional steps and allow additional restarts to attempt to get affected racers to re-join.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:57 pm 
Alex Yoong
Driver ID: #114
Car Number: #777
Joined: 18 Jul 2019
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I don't know about everyone else but I think you nailed it, it's a good line in the sand. Thank you for spending the time on this Vee.

What does everyone else think?


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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:53 pm 
Alex Yoong
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Sounds very fair to me.
You have put some effort into this.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:37 pm 
Alex Yoong
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No issues on my side.

Up to 3 restarts is very generous though!

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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:43 pm 
Alex Yoong
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Maybe we can change the server name on the night to "Don't Push Red Button" :idea:

:mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:48 am 
Jochen Rindt
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Good stuff.

Veedub wrote:
Any dropper(s) will however forfeit their original race start position and will be required to start from the back of the grid.

I kind of feel this is possibly heavy handed?

No one intends to drop on purpose, most often it's no fault of their own or a mistake, I don't see why they need get punished imo.
If it's the rule, fair enough, but I feel they should retain their original spot in the starting order?

EDIT:
Penalties should be for on-track incidents and mishaps, not off-track ones.

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Last edited by Eradicator on Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:34 am 
Alberto Ascari
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Yep agree with Erad, no reason why the dropper can't rejoin the rolling start in their qualy position.

All the rest good, nice job veedub.

Also possibly worth adding as it's related - if you get a penalty prior to the race (pit lane speeding during qualy, or a jumped race start most likely) that's on you and no qualy restart happens.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:48 am 
Sebastian Vettel
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Very happy with this new rule. Sometimes I forget that I can't talk during the "big red button" screen and my "push to talk" button is the same as the "Accept" key in the game.

Last weekend I did understand that though. What happened was that I went for a quick piss, came back to hear that Lambo pushed the button and I was typing to you all in the game chat saying we needed to restart because it was Lambo's first race back. Just got distracted while typing and didn't press ready. I know he was saying it was OK to continue but still, we should have made an effort for him to race because it's not a big thing to restart and it was his first race back after a long hiatus.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:03 am 
Alex Yoong
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Ghost wrote:
Very happy with this new rule. Sometimes I forget that I can't talk during the "big red button" screen and my "push to talk" button is the same as the "Accept" key in the game.


I have the same behaviour.... Is there a fix? Seems something that would be really simple that I'm just over looking.

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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:56 am 
Alan Jones
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Chigerama wrote:
Ghost wrote:
Very happy with this new rule. Sometimes I forget that I can't talk during the "big red button" screen and my "push to talk" button is the same as the "Accept" key in the game.


I have the same behaviour.... Is there a fix? Seems something that would be really simple that I'm just over looking.

I know this solution is going to blow your mind so you better be sitting down... map the push to talk to another button

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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:24 pm 
Alberto Ascari
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heh. Yeah I had that too, tried remapping the button in game but now it'ssomehow made that button ESC, which isn't actually an issue, just brings up some bullshit in the non-racing part of the game every time I talk. Thing is my push to talk button has been the same button forever and I'm not about to change my muscle memory habits.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:18 pm 
Alex Yoong
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Yeah... It's just... odd.

I don't want to remap my button away from where it is! May just bite the bullet...

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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:45 pm 
Takuma Sato
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Eradicator wrote:
Good stuff.

Veedub wrote:
Any dropper(s) will however forfeit their original race start position and will be required to start from the back of the grid.

I kind of feel this is possibly heavy handed?

No one intends to drop on purpose, most often it's no fault of their own or a mistake, I don't see why they need get punished imo.
If it's the rule, fair enough, but I feel they should retain their original spot in the starting order?

Flouncy wrote:
Yep agree with Erad, no reason why the dropper can't rejoin the rolling start in their qualy position.

Valid points. I originally wasn't convinced about this either, but the more I thought about it stronger I felt that this is a good addition. It's not about punishment per se, but more around ensuring the other racers aren't disadvantaged, there is a simple and consistent approach and that there is some consequence to ensure care. My thinking around this:

- There needs to be some consequence to somebody dropping. It does impact other racers when we restart and while all of us are happy to take the impact to have everyone participate, we'd all rather this not happen in the first place. So we'd want to make sure everyone is encouraged to take care as best they can to avoid dropping. I'm not saying that anyone would drop intentionally, and I know that often there is nothing you can do, but if there is no consequence there may not be as much care.

- The dropper should not get an advantage, and the racers that didn't drop shouldn't be disadvantaged. For someone at the front of the grid a rolling start is an advantage vs a standing start. If pole dropped, and we have to restart with a rolling start it would be fair enough for P2/P3 to feel robbed of an opportunity to make something happen as part of standing start. Dropping the dropper (mind the pun) to the back of the grid avoids potential contention here. And TBH starting from the back of the grid is not that bad. We reward the Race 1 winner with this privilege after all.

- Trying to find a simple and consistent balance on when/how to maintain grid position may get tricky depending on why/when someone dropped. For example - someone drops by hitting the big red button after qualy, with qualy results recorded. That's simple enough to track and assign starting position. But what if the current polesitter drops due to a comms issue 30 seconds before end of qualy. Do we still give them pole? What if someone currently in middle of the grid drops 5 minutes out. Do we record their previous time and rejig final results accordingly? And how about someone which puts themselves in pole, but then presses their pit limiter button too late and gets DQ'd. Do we re-instate their pole position? You can argue that not pressing the pit limiter button is no more of a mistake than it is to press the big red button, so would we penalise one and not the other? It can get contentious to do one and not the other and these are not questions I want to try and figure out a few minutes before race start :shock:

It is is indeed a bit tough to lose your qualy position, but with all of the above considered I do feel that this is the best overall approach.

That being said - Flouncy, Erad and others: If you still feel strongly about this let me know and I'll put up a poll to get a consensus view (go democracy :))

Flouncy wrote:
Also possibly worth adding as it's related - if you get a penalty prior to the race (pit lane speeding during qualy, or a jumped race start most likely) that's on you and no qualy restart happens.

Good point we should never restart qualy regardless - will add this in.

*Phew* - that was a lot of typing. Even more thinking. Need beer now.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:50 am 
Jochen Rindt
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Veedub wrote:
- Trying to find a simple and consistent balance on when/how to maintain grid position may get tricky depending on why/when someone dropped. For example - someone drops by hitting the big red button after qualy, with qualy results recorded. That's simple enough to track and assign starting position. But what if the current polesitter drops due to a comms issue 30 seconds before end of qualy. Do we still give them pole? What if someone currently in middle of the grid drops 5 minutes out. Do we record their previous time and rejig final results accordingly? And how about someone which puts themselves in pole, but then presses their pit limiter button too late and gets DQ'd. Do we re-instate their pole position? You can argue that not pressing the pit limiter button is no more of a mistake than it is to press the big red button, so would we penalise one and not the other? It can get contentious to do one and not the other and these are not questions I want to try and figure out a few minutes before race start :shock:
I feel this one can be answered partly with what I posted as an edit earlier.

Eradicator wrote:
Penalties should be for on-track incidents and mishaps, not off-track ones.
Ie if the game serves you a penalty as part of the game mechanics, you own it.
Otherwise, you start going down rabbit holes like you've been pondering about.

As to the rest of this point. IMO once qualy is underway. It's up to everyone to be there at the end of it to claim positions.
If they're not listed on the games qualy ladder at the end, they start from the back come the race.

I've probably put more than 2c in now. I'll leave it there.
Happy with however we do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:52 am 
Alex Yoong
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I'm with veedub on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Race Restart Policy
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:19 am 
Alberto Ascari
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Well explained VD, I have no further issues :)


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