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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:19 pm 
Sebastian Vettel
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Gonna get a bit of money back from tax so would like to update my pc that I bought off Eradicator about 6 years ago. Looking to get a MB, CPU and RAM As I already have the 1080TI, case, HDD's and PSU.

I'm looking at a Ryzen 5 3600x, MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC MB and I need help with RAM.

I understand the B450 is an old model that will need a BIOS update to run the Ryzen 3000 series. Hoping that it will be ok as all the new 3rd gen AM4 MB's are still a little to high priced. The BIOS update seems to be a hit and miss affair on all the various forums with regards to the B450 and the Ryzen 3000 series.

Now the RAM is an issue, there is so much to choose and none are supported by MSI QVL with a Ryzen 3000 series CPU. Anybody have an ideas on what to do? Also should I just pay more for a X570 MB and not worry about compatibility with the BIOS update on the B450?

Gimme help guys


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:26 pm 
Alberto Ascari
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NFI about B450 compatibility, but if a 570 board is on the cards go for that, you get the PCIe gen 4 goodness that really helps NVMe SSDs, even better if it's a native gen 4 SSD.

Great CPU choice, too.

And you've got good internet.

Only took 20 years but you're there at last man. You did it. Level up.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:22 pm 
Sebastian Vettel
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Never had a NVMe M.2 SSD, That's not on the cards just yet. I have a 500gb 2.5" SSD that is fine for now.

And if I go for the X570, it will only be the cheapest one pretty much, and I don't know if I like that idea.

And yay for goodish internet. Its not NBN by any imagination, but its ADSL 2+ speed, 16MB down, 1MB up.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:56 pm 
Alberto Ascari
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Spend more and get a spanky new NVMe SSD. It makes everything load instantly. More or less. Not really but a lot.

A hundred bucks for a fav games drive fuck yeah https://www.pccasegear.com/products/453 ... -ssd-250gb

Get that. Sorted.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:46 pm 
Jochen Rindt
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If budget-conscious, perfect CPU choice, and yes go B450. X570 is only a thing if you want PCI-E 4.0 or better future-proofing, but even then, with even B350 supporting the new 12-core 3900X, a good B450 will likely support new processors for years to come.

If the new B450 board you're getting has BIOS flashback function where you plug in a USB with no CPU and do a dance and the board updates the BIOS all by itself, that'll alleviate any worries about it having a compatible BIOS version out of the box.
Or pay a small fee and get your vendor to flash the latest onto it before shipping.

As for memory, don't go above 3600MHz stuff.
Having just looked into it all myself in purchasing my new build, 3600MHz @ C16 is the best all-round performance for 3rd Gen.
3200MHz@C14 is likely better or as good too (and in Aus, is at least available)(I'm importing 3600@C16 stuff as it's not sold anywhere in Aus it seems, amazingly similar pricing too).

Ryzen prefers tighter timings than lots of MHz. 3800MHz and beyond, the Infinity Fabric inside the CPU switches to a 2:1 ratio to maintain compatibility with faster kits, but you loose latency as a result and have to go well beyond expensive 4000MHz to claw the difference back.

This kit is my recommendation
https://www.pccasegear.com/products/425 ... 2x8gb-ddr4
or this one to save more cash and remove the RGB-ness
https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/Mem ... C14D-16GFX

Also refer to this for guidance
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:51 pm 
Sebastian Vettel
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There's the guy I was hoping would chime in as well, not that Flouncy doesn't know his stuff, but Eradicator is the master builder. Some may say an idiot savant... :D

So your recommended RAM is the RAM I was looking at. What do you think of manufacturers QVL with regards to supported RAM? Flouncy has put the idea of X570 into my head and it stuck, so I'm now looking to spend and extra 200 dollarydoos on the MB and going to get ASUS ROG Strix X570-F Gaming or the cheaper option of ASUS TUF Gaming X570 Plus WiFi(wifi is a good bonus). Got a soft spot for ROG though.

When having a look at the QVL for supported RAM I get confused. Would the RAM you recommended be supported by those MB's? Its not on the list. Should the list be followed completely or is a gamble OK as long as the timings are correct?

The B450 board I was going to get, the MSI, does have flashback and I have no issues doing that myself, but I have been reading so many angry posts about it not booting after flashing and other issues that it is scaring me away from a B450. I wanted an Asus ROG B450 but there is no mention of a BIOS update for that MB and I wont have another CPU to put into it to be able to do the update so that is why I was looking at the MSI.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:17 pm 
Jochen Rindt
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;)

Ghost wrote:
What do you think of manufacturers QVL with regards to supported RAM?

Yeah. As I understand it that's just RAM that they've officially tested as working. Annoyingly they don't say RAM they did test and it failed. So hard to say if the RAM is just not officially tested or it actually fails.

With the better memory controller on the 3000 series, I'd say we'd be ok.
The RAM I'm getting isn't on the QVL for the board I'm getting either, yet it has the specs that AMD recommends in the image above as best.

I'd be confident it'd be fine. If there is a problem, stepping the ram down a speed/timing notch will probably fix it anyway.

1000 series had terrible compatibility. 2000 series improved it but was still finicky. 3000 is supposed to be quite mature now and can just throw stuff in and it'll work. I wouldn't let QVL hold you back.


Ghost wrote:
Flouncy has put the idea of X570 into my head and it stuck, so I'm now looking to spend and extra 200 dollarydoos on the MB and going to get ASUS ROG Strix X570-F Gaming or the cheaper option of ASUS TUF Gaming X570 Plus WiFi(wifi is a good bonus). Got a soft spot for ROG though.

Flouncy strikes again! lol
Um, yes the Strix-F I too was looking at, but the VRM isn't great for the price, it's the same as the cheaper TUF. My advice there is step up to the Strix-E and get a few more goodies like 2.5G LAN and better VRM or save your money and go a TUF model. The -F isn't the best value apparently.


Ghost wrote:
The B450 board I was going to get, the MSI, does have flashback and I have no issues doing that myself, but I have been reading so many angry posts about it not booting after flashing and other issues that it is scaring me away from a B450. I wanted an Asus ROG B450 but there is no mention of a BIOS update for that MB and I wont have another CPU to put into it to be able to do the update so that is why I was looking at the MSI.

I've a B350 board at work I went from 1000 series to a 2000 series CPU after a BIOS update, no hassle.
I dare say no booting after an update is the minority of cases, otherwise MSI wouldn't release the BIOS if it more than likely bricked your system.

Like I said, if you're worried about that, just ask where you buy it from to pre-flash the latest BIOS on and test it before shipping to you. Stress-free confidence then.

I've been keeping up with all the stuff coming out and people running 3000 CPU's in B350/450 aren't seeing any performance differences. Only thing to consider is on cheap boards with weaker VRM solutions they can overheat and cause throttling.
So as long as the B450 board has a reasonable amount of phases and a good heatsink, it'll work just as well and be $100+ cheaper.

Can't go wrong either way. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:35 am 
Takuma Sato
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I've been given a soft 'yes' for a new system too...

AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6Ghz 8 Core 16 Thread AM4 Retail Box - With Wraith Prism RGB Cooler
MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus AM4 ATX Desktop Motherboard
Corsair 16GB Kit (2x8GB) DDR4 Vengeance LPX Black C15 3000MHz
Corsair Force MP600 1TB Gen4 PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

And then i'm seriously considering the AMD 5700 XT, where previously i was looking at an Nvidia 2070 based card.

The magic in that rig is the SSD, which is twice the speed (almost) of normal NVMe drives being a PCI-e 4 part, not 3 as older SSDs are.

Comes in at about $1700 without the GPU, including case and PSU


I've been reading that the X470 boards m.2 slots can run at PCI-e 4 speeds too, with a ryzen, if you wanted a more budget motherboard option.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:18 am 
Sebastian Vettel
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Wow Chigerama, that SSD is insane. I wont be able to afford that but maybe another cheaper NVMe(Damn you Flouncy, I'm easily lead).

Soooooooo; 3600x CPU, Asus ROG Strix-E X570 MB(damn you Eradicator) and G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200 c14 Ram comes to $1187 from PCCG, This is not a budget system anymore I guess. Oh plus a NVme for another $100(damn you again Flouncy), I might even sell a kidney for a gen4 version. Or go a cheaper MB.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:57 pm 
Takuma Sato
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Definitely go the NVMe, even if you can't get a PCI-e 4 version - it's going to be 6 times faster than a SATA based drive.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:22 am 
Jochen Rindt
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Did you have a budget Ghost? Maybe we can help you stick to it.

If it's starting to get overpriced, seriously, consider X470 or B450, you're honestly not losing out on much and get an NVMe drive (Samsung 970 Evo Plus ideally) of your preferred capacity.

Switch to the Flare X memory I linked, to save some more money if you can live without RGB.

You might find this handy regarding motherboard decision:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:46 pm 
Sebastian Vettel
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Thanks, that video helped. Originally when I was thinking of building, I had a budget of 700-800 and I was going off Dasa's parts list post on the Atomic forums.

-CPU Ryzen 5 2600 3.4-3.9GHz 6C\12T $254
-MB Asus STRIX B450-F $208
-RAM 16G (2x8) F4-3200C14D-16GFX $319

But I was hearing good things about the 3000 series Ryzen so thought I would just upgrade to that. Then the research to see if that motherboard could run the 3000 series and I guess it can, but there is no mention of a BIOS update and even if there is, I dont have a Ryzen CPU to do the update. That got me onto the MSI with its flashback feature to update the BIOS without a CPU installed.

I was mainly worried about updating the BIOS on the MSI, Im sure I can do it, I have done many updates to BIOS before and other technical stuff(used to be a computer/network technician), I was just reading a lot of bad things on forums. But I guess that could be a very vocal minority. The main issues were after flashing, the board would only boot 1 in 10 tries, the board wouldn't boot at all, and stuff like that.

Im not an overclocker so I dont really care about that, but I love stable systems that just work constantly. The system that I bought of you (CPU, RAM, MB) has been so finicky and temperamental. The x58 chipset with its "heat sink squishing one corner of the cpu causing RAM to not be detected" did my head in, but I got it to a point where it is stable and recognizing 6GB of RAM. The MSI only booting when it wants to doesn't sound good to me, but again, it could be a very vocal minority.

I like the video guys explanation of good and bad MB, no preference because what is a good vendor one year can be shit the next. MSI just happens to have a good B450 build.

So this is my current build list
Image


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:54 pm 
Jochen Rindt
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Nice. Glad I've pulled you down out of the clouds a little where Flounce shot you up to :P
It's certainly easy to get carried away with this stuff. I might've with mine, we'll see :lol:

Shopping cart looks good!

Just saw this 3600 vs 3600X comparison. You could actually drop to the regular 3600 if you'd like to save a further $70. As they're pretty much the same! Maybe a couple of percent difference.

I know you said you CBF with OCing, but it's an interesting note that they both OC to the same levels anyway. So if it ever did take your fancy down the line, nothing is given up there either.



When you gonna pull the trigger? :)

EDIT: MSI is releasing updated B450/X470 boards with "MAX" suffixes to denote boards with larger BIOS chips (to accommodate all the new BIOS code AMD is pushing out) and they'll support 3rd gen Ryzen out of the box.
Not sure when they're coming but thought you might like to know.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:43 pm 
Sebastian Vettel
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Buying as soon as my tax return comes in. So a week or two.

That was another thing I heard about the MSI boards, that the BIOS update was a cut down version with crappy UI because the BIOS chip was to small to fit the update on without cutting the fancy UI. So all black and white minimalistic. Any way to see the size of the BIOS chip size on the board I am getting. Obviously the spec sheet doesn't say it. I'll have a little Google I think.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:26 pm 
Giuseppe Farina
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got the go ahead too.

Going with
3600x
ASUS TUF Gaming X570 Plus WiFi
Gskill Flare 3200C14D

Start purchasing over the next week or so :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:59 am 
Sebastian Vettel
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Damn, I guess everyone got their tax back because I got mine and went to buy stuff and it's all sold out. Only for a couple of days though.

Woohoo Mesafto. It's the upgrade train!, get on board!, wooooot! wooooooot! chugga chugga!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:59 am 
Sebastian Vettel
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Ordered, WOOHOO!

Got the 3600, the MSI b450 gaming pro carbon AC, and an NVMe SSD from PCCG, I'm also getting them to update the BIOS to make sure it comes working, for $700 all up there.

Then bought the cheaper RAM from Scorptec with the OCAU discount of $20, plus I bought a new heat sync. All up $300 there.

With postage came to about $1050 all up. Very happy and should have it by the end of next week.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:14 pm 
Alberto Ascari
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Congratulations :) I think that makes you ASR's first Ryzen 3 runner.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:32 pm 
Giuseppe Farina
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https://www.mwave.com.au/product/gskill ... ck-ac03938

Gskill flare x 3200 c14
About $250.... Quite a bit cheaper than scorptec etc

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:13 pm 
Sebastian Vettel
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Scorptec gave a $20 discount for OCAU coupon type thing. The RAM came to $249


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