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 Post subject: [F1.S12.R01] Nurburgring
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:14 pm 
Ayrton Senna
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Car: Ferrari F138
Track: Nurburgring GP
Laps: 20
Date: 05 March 2017
Tyres: Super Soft, Hard

Schedule (all times AEDT)
Practice: 20:00
Qualifying: 20:30
Race 1: 20:45
Interval: 5 minutes after Race 1, ~21:20
Race 2: ~21:30
Finish: ~22:10

Format
Qualifying session to determine grid for Race 1. Race 2 is a rolling start reverse grid race. i.e. Winner of Race 1 starts last on grid for Race 2.

Open Practice Session
When: Friday before every race.
Start: 20:00 AEDT.
Format: 5 x 10 minute quick race - no practice, no qualifying.



Server Side:
Sun Angle: 1:30pm
Traction Control: Factory (if applicable)
Stability Control: Factory (if applicable)
Auto Clutch: Allowed
ABS: Allowed (Factory only)
Damage: 40%
Fuel Usage: 100%
Tire Wear: 125%
Starting Grip: 100%

Car Setup
Open

Livery Download
Coming Soon.

Back to Pits
Back to Pits (BTP) is permitted in the practice sessions and in qualifying. BTP is not permitted during the race. If you BTP you cannot rejoin the race and your race is over.

Not Classified
Drivers must complete 90% race distance to be classified as a finisher for the sake of starting position of race 2. All drivers not classified at the end of race 1 are required to start race 2 from the rear of the grid, behind the race 1 winner. In the event of multiple NC drivers, the earliest driver to NC starts from the rear of the grid and so on.

You must finish 90% of timed races to be classified finisher. i.e. If the races finishes and your total race time is less than 90% of the time allocated to the timed race (typically 30 minutes, so 27 minutes).

In the event of race length determined by laps, you must complete the integer portion of 90% of the full race distance. For example if a race is 17 laps in length, the 90% mark is 15.3. You must complete at least 15 laps to be considered a finisher.

Results
Race 1: http://simresults.net/170305-xX2
Race 2: http://simresults.net/170305-c94


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:11 pm 
ASR F1 Champion
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Aye. Totally in.

Seeing as tire options are now restricted can we always have number of laps in the OP to help with strategy planning.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:46 pm 
Ayrton Senna
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Flouncy wrote:
Seeing as tire options are now restricted can we always have number of laps in the OP to help with strategy planning.

No. :)

The races have always intended to be 30 minute races. AC now supports timed races, so now they really are "proper" timed races. They'll be 30 minutes + 1 lap.

I'm sure people smart enough to want a strategic element can do their own lap time in the official Practice session (or their own) and work out what they think the number of laps will be based on Int(1800 / laptime) + 1 or thereabouts :)

Anyone is welcome to workout what they think the number of laps will be and post it here for everyone else benefit.
FWIW, harping back to what I said above, I don't know the number of laps, as it's now a true timed race.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:44 pm 
ASR F1 Champion
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Why even have timed races? Fuel burn is something that we need to calculate even more precisely than tires. We can do a few laps and calculate what we need, maths is much fuzzier now unless we do a full 30 min run non stop. What's the advantage in timed over set? Waaaaaaaaaaaa.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:14 pm 
Ayrton Senna
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The laps have always been calculated based on 30mins. Someone has to go and do laps and workout what the eventual pace will be to work out how many laps will fit in approx 30 mins. It would have been a lot easier back before the game support times races to simply say 'every race is 15 laps'. Of course spa isn't magionne...

Working out fuel burn isn't hard. Ya gotta do it anyway regardless of if it's a timed race or a laps race, or alternatively just fill the tank and who cares.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:24 pm 
Ayrton Senna
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Posts: 5361
Just to muddy things up even more, could also do the races by distance like F1. :D

I am assuming i am racing at this stage. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:27 pm 
Ayrton Senna
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millen wrote:
Just to muddy things up even more, could also do the races by distance like F1. :D

No.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:29 pm 
Ayrton Senna
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:49 am 
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Um yeah, agree with Flouncy about timed...I could understand if we had some way of converting fuel quantity by time easily, but best we have is fuel per lap calculation done for us based on how we personally use fuel.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:59 am 
Lewis Hamilton
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Think I prefer a fixed lap count too.

Timed = Good feature for enduro races (that we've still yet to attempt!) but otherwise I think fixed lap counts are better. Aint nobody able to do math while driving. Especially Flouncy...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:53 am 
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Hang on, why does it matter? You still have to do maths no matter what.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:24 am 
ASR F1 Champion
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Ploddy wrote:
Hang on, why does it matter? You still have to do maths no matter what.


Because the maths is more complex and definitely difficult to do on the fly in a race if you need an unplanned pitstop.

I'm shit at maths, but it looks like:

Average laptime x 31 = total driving time. Total driving time / fuel per lap = total laps driven. Fuel burn per lap x total laps driven = required fuel load. Then if doing a pitstop - which you may not want to be exactly midway, it gets more complex especially while driving.

So the maths only come back to calculating number of laps driven anyway, so let's cut out the middleman. I've spent my whole life avoiding maths and now it is shoving its sneering face in my fun. I hate you maths.

Plus, we're F1 drivers, and we are conditioned to set lap races.


edit: just realised the maths above is totally wrong. SEE? I am not up to this challenge and will fight it with all the might my left side brain can muster.


Last edited by Flouncy on Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:26 am 
ASR F1 Champion
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Yeah the time idea sucks :-)

Lets just call it 20 laps and be done with it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:27 am 
Ayrton Senna
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Lap at a track until you're consistent, lets say 1:30.000 (90's) 30 mins = 1800 seconds = 1800/90 = 20 Laps. If it's fractional always round up for safety of your calculations. Add 1.

Practice session is used for fuel burn. Say it's 3.4L per lap. You now need 21x3.4L = 71.4L . Call it 74L to have a buffer. Now either fill your tank at the start of the race and only take tyres. Or fuel a portion of 74 and set PitConfig to fill the remainder when you stop. No on the fly calc needed, unless you find your calculations weren't right pre-race - and a safety buffer should sort that.

It's a 30 second calculation once you have a laptime to work from. It doens't even matter if you're 5L overfilled. Do you think it's going to play more a difference than than extra wheel spin you're getting out of turn 3 every lap, or that time you run wide and off into the grass at turn 7?

I don't get it. For the last few season it's been based on 30 minute races and someone (Lambo and now me) has gone out and done times to establish the number of laps to fit in that period, because AC didn't have a timed lap feature. It now does, so it's easy to set up.

Anyway, this is a democracy and the people have spoken. But what do you want instead? I'm not going to be calculating laps to fit inside 30 minutes. Fixed laps every race or some guesstimated number of laps.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:32 am 
ASR F1 Champion
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Thanks for responding bigly to the people's movement.

Can't you just set number of laps in the backend? Does it not handle this simple thing?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:34 am 
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Well, let's look at this subjectively.

When we didn't have total race time (which by the way now opens up endurance racing) I'd have to work out the number of laps based on average lap times which meant I'd usually work it out later or based on feed back from other drivers. I like the idea of putting this back on the driver.

Sure it was a bit easier since all you'd do is burn some laps in practice, look at the estimate and go from there.

I kinda like this because it adds an element of drama and strategy. Calculating fuel before was boring and easy and added very little to the strategic element or racing.

Realistically the calculation has not changed. All you're doing now is taking the fuel you consume per lap which you already know, and adding in number of laps. The same calculation I'd/Kikz would do. How hard can that be?

I think it will add an interesting strategic element and is worth a try, could mean some interesting final laps as people either preserve fuel or burn it up and makes the admin job easier.

Just my thoughts.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:35 am 
Ayrton Senna
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Flouncy wrote:
Can't you just set number of laps in the backend? Does it not handle this simple thing?

Yes of course. Are people happy with set number of laps every race? I won't be calculating the number of laps to fit in an approximate 30 window. Not when there's a better way to ensure races go 30 minutes.

Personally, I'd have thought a fixed timetable is more important than anything else, so people can know when they're done. Maybe 30 minutes doesn't make a big difference.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:47 am 
ASR F1 Champion
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kikz wrote:
Flouncy wrote:
Can't you just set number of laps in the backend? Does it not handle this simple thing?

Yes of course. Are people happy with set number of laps every race? I won't be calculating the number of laps to fit in an approximate 30 window. Not when there's a better way to ensure races go 30 minutes.

Personally, I'd have thought a fixed timetable is more important than anything else, so people can know when they're done. Maybe 30 minutes doesn't make a big difference.


Rough estimates I reckon are good enough. Doesn't need to be exact. A quick run is enough - doesn't even need to be you - to make a rough benchmark laptime, then MATHS lets you calculate # of laps to fit within rough 30 min timeframe.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:00 am 
Ayrton Senna
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I'd rather just guestimate a number, based on knowledge of real F1 laps at this circuit and about average lap times. Eg. Monza I know does 53 laps and takes about 70 minutes, so 25 laps is about half an hour.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:41 am 
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Sounds good to me :)


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